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Crimson DESTR0YA
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Posts: 1888

I'd like to see Cress, Meloetta, and Keldeo in the Challenger/Champion only list. I'm also for putting Talonflame on that same list along with all Megas but the three you mentioned, which would go Uber. Also Wobb, Uber him.

I don't like restricting switches, and for the items, I'd just say only the Challenger can Choice and everyone follows Item Clause (or possibly everyone but the Challenger). I'm not for barring Hidden Abilities either, but if we did, I'd then be in favor of unrestricting Dragonite's and obviously Talonflame's use.

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March 10, 2014 at 11:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Right, nite only got on the OU list for Multiscale, without it he wouldn't be so tough.

What is your reasoning for Meloetta and Keldeo? Keldoe especially was a real beast in BW OU, I'd have to look up specifics as to why but he had high useage.


I guess with reguards to items, Abilities, and egg moves, we really just need to know what kinds of battles we want to have. Do we want to mimic the games closely or do we want to have competative battles with mono teams? I've been operating like we are mimicing the games but I'm not so in love with that idea that I would think we need to do it. Most of my rules were keeping the spirit of the in-game E4 alive, if we were to switch it to competative battle style just with mono teams and a Champion then there are several Legends on the list whom should not be banned anymore. Hell Metagross's useage now-a-days is UU borderline RU thanks to the changes with Steel resistance.

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March 11, 2014 at 9:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

My reasoning for those two is Meloetta's base 90 Speed and Keldeo's pathetically shallow movepool. I don't know, I have one of each, I don't think either is too broken, but I also slept through all of BW in terms of what got used a ton. It does surprise me to hear Keldeo was popular.


I think what I personally envision is not to mimic the games, but I think "emulate" is a good word. I want a balance between the freedom of the competitive game and limitations of the in-game experience. Many of those limitations the real E4s have are in place so as to be accessible to casual Pokémon players, and I wouldn't consider any of the four of us casual. Nor do I see any casual players joining in with us on this. So if we can identify those limitations versus those that are in place for true competitive balance, and place more emphasis on keeping the latter as opposed to the former, that's the level of balance I would like to see.

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March 11, 2014 at 9:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Okay, that was a succent way to put it. I'm totally with you.


I wanna wait and let Tam and Diddy weigh in before saying more so they aren't playing constant catch-up.

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March 11, 2014 at 2:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Good plan. Just for the sake of summary and because the last detailed listing is now on the previous forum page, I'll go ahead and post my proposed rules for yours, Tam's, and Diddy's input. Again, just a proposal. ACTUALLY, AS OF AN EDIT, THESE ARE THE RULES. Unless anyone objects before we start.


Uber (No one can use): Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Latios, Latias, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys (all formes), Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Genesect, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Mega Blaziken, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar, Wobbuffet.


Semi-Uber (Only Challenger and Champion, and only one Poke from this list is allowed on a team): Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Entei, Raikou, Suicune, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Regigigas, Heatran, Cresselia, Azelf, Uxie, Mesprit, Cobalion, Terrakion, Verizion, Keldeo, Meloetta, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Volcarona, Haxorus, Rotom, Talonflame.

Additionally, all Megas excluding those in Ubers (the game's own rules prevent having more than one Mega Evolution per battle, but I suppose it's still okay to have multiple Mega Stones and multiple Mega-Evolvable Pokémon? Since only one can use it)


-Each member of the Elite Four must represent one Type, with all but one of their team's members belonging at least partially to that type. Each E4 member is allowed one "Wild Card" member that does not conform to their representative type. The Champion may comprise his/her team of any number of types.

-Hidden Abilities allowed

-Item Clause is on for everyone; only one of each item per team

-Obvs, Sleep, Species, Hax Moves and Hax Item Clauses are on

-Choice Band, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf may only be used by Challenger

-Unrestricted switches

-E4 can't place hazards

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March 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tamoria
Member
Posts: 234

The rules are starting to sound pretty good to me! Would Champ also be allowed a Mega or only the challenger? And I'd like to hear everyone's input on the barring BP items thing, as well! I would like to clarify also that Kalos had a few BP only items that virtually every other game gave to you for free (ie Wise Glasses, Muscle Band) so what's the stance on that?

I'm in favor of hazard restrictions and I could go either way on weather restriction. With the new weather mechanics, I feel like it's not a huge issue anymore? Of course it might be a bit too much of an advantage on a Type team. I could see that going either way.

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March 11, 2014 at 3:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

I vote that Champ is allowed to Mega.

I'm also starting to think I'm against the idea of banning BP-only items, because of exactly what Tam said, Kalos gave us so few nice items in-game as compared to other regions. I'm starting to think just barring Choice from the E4 and Champ is enough of an item advantage for the Challenger. Item Clause already prevents Lefties/LO spam.

And as for weather, yeah, now that Ability weather is no longer endless, I also think we can let that be.

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March 11, 2014 at 4:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Weather is still alive and kicking in this new gen, just like Stealth Rock. Predictions were that the weather nerf would kill weather teams and new Defog mechanics would ruin Rocks but they still exist.

That said, I think a weather team still makes for a fun challenge. Since the Challenger will know ahead of time what type the E4 is he might know to prepare for weather and plan his team accordingly. just about every Ice type Gym E4 member has used Hail since it was invented, it really doesn't make for much of a surprise.


Otherwise I like the rules, we can always change things that break the game later if we see it. I agree with you and Tam, banning Choice and Item Clause really make for enough a favor towards the Challenger.


Also, Nick you added Chandelure to the possible Hidden Ability restriction list because you probably remember it having Shadow Tag as the HA. Unfortunately for Lure, that isn't true anymore. The HA was changed to Infiltrator.

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March 11, 2014 at 10:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Indeed I did not know that about Chandelure. Gotta say I like that change.

Also, I did forget about this in my rule summary, I'm not 100% set on revealing the team types to the Challenger before we begin; I think it's necessary this first time because Tam and I have been very frank about how we'd like to run Water and Ghost, respectively. Though if we're each going to be playing two E4 members, I don't suppose we have to reveal our second teams... But yeah, if you want to set it as a standard that we keep our types secret from the Challenger, I'm cool with that.


It looks like we're really quite close to an agreement here, at least between the three of us. Diddy, is this close enough to your vision?

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March 12, 2014 at 12:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

It isn't like team reveal won't let the challenger know right away what your type is once the battle starts too.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

March 12, 2014 at 8:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

B "Diddy" M
Member
Posts: 295

I'm game for being the challenger and okay with most rules. My only proposed change would be to allow Ability based weather changers for the E4. I think that is what CJ was mentioning, but I wasn't sure. I don't like the idea of being unable to use a Pokemon just because it can change the weather. I honestly think that it would kind of fit the theme. I mean, imagine fighting Bruno in a Sandstorm! Lorelei in Hail! 

Other than that I'm game. What date is this supposed to be done by? Also, what happens if I lose on the first battle? I mean, I'm hoping I don't, but i feel like there should be some sort of back up plan. I wouldn't want the challenge to fall flat on one battle, but we can't very well continue it if I lose, you know?

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March 12, 2014 at 9:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Yeah, I agree about the weather, that's why I put a question mark next to that one in the list. We're not running that rule. I edited my proposed rules list to reflect my understanding of what we've all agreed upon. Everyone, please give it your final review and approval.


As for the date, we should decide if we want this to be a part of Battle Night in the last week of March or if we want to run this sooner. We could also do both; run the first one sooner and then do it again at Battle Night. My schedule is very felxible, we'll just have to find a night that works for everyone.

And I think it'd be best if the Challenger ran all five battles. Perhaps the challenger only earns the Championship title if he/she sweeps the battles (maybe gets a Medal that only the current Champion can have in their signature?), but I vote we play out all the matches regardless of outcome for the sake of having more fun.

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March 12, 2014 at 9:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Your rules have my OK!


I also completely agree, we should have every battle even if the Challenger is unsuccessful for the sake of fun. Losing to the first E4 shouldn't be grounds for an end to the challenge. A badge is a good idea. Diddy should get a bronze one alone for being first Challenger, he's got it the worst here lol.


My schedule is pretty lax too. I wanted to ask again, since I don't remember if this was answered or not, but are we doing this on Pokemon Showdown or in our games? Because if it isn't showdown we'll need to give some of the players a week or so to breed and build their teams.

Also, if we are doing this in-game, I apologise ahead of time for any and all Shiny Pokemon I bring in. It feels wrong in the spirit of the competation, but some of them are my only battleable Pokemon of their species. Especially my Legendaries or Semi-legendaries.

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Ask me about my waifus

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March 13, 2014 at 8:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Games, definitely. And don't worry at all about the shinies; Tam and I both have some we're eager to showcase.

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March 18, 2014 at 1:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I just wanted to announce that I have my team together for a Champion.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 11, 2014 at 6:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Any chance Nat and/or Jordan might want to get in on this? Especially since we're planning on it being casual-competitive rather than all-out competitive?

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April 11, 2014 at 9:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I never even thought to ask them. Jordan might, dunno about Natalie. I'm talking to her now though so I'll say something!

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

It'd be really easy to introduce them as E4 members. We could even just let them pick a type and breed the teams for them ourselves if they didn't want to be completely hands-on with it.

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April 11, 2014 at 9:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tamoria
Member
Posts: 234

Oh man please let this get momentum again, I'm still so in love with doing an E4 challenge! I'm going to be pretty busy until college lets out and literally the day after my last final I'm getting on a plane to Ecuador where I'll be mostly without electricity for three weeks though, so it might be a while before I can really give this my all.

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April 12, 2014 at 6:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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