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Crimson DESTR0YA
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Posts: 1888

CJ, you follow all the usage stuff. What's on Uber watch? What's not on Uber watch that you personally wonder about? I'd like to get our rules formed here if we can soon.

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April 2, 2014 at 10:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Uber list right now is Mewtwo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Kyogre, Groudon, Raycraycray, Mega!Gengar, Mega!Kangaskan, Mega!Blaziken, Deoxys N, Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyruem-W, Lugia, Ho-oh, Palkia, Dialgia, Giratina, Arceus, Manaphy, and Darkrai.


I would consider banning most event Legendaries from competative play here just because they would be limited by who could get ahold of them. I have access to a lot of Event Pokemon and can cherry pick from them ones with decent stats and natures. That may not be the case for you, Casey, or Diddy and I don't want to have an unfair advantage just because I can bring a Blaze Kick Genesect or Therian Form Landorus and you can't.


I haven't seen a strategy that is too OP to consider banning here, but we should take it case by case. I, at least, would not be offended if you, Diddy, and Casey voted to ban a Pokemon I use because it is too detrimental to your team structuring (i.e. forces you to run teams of Pokemon you dislike just to beat it or, worse, you cannot find a way to beat it) and I'd like to think the same. My initial battles will be all over the place team-wise as I try to get the Pokemon I like to be used, but I'd eventually like to settle into a team of 10 or so to pull from reliably so you an Casey can expect SOME kind of dependability out of my teams and aren't fighting new Pokemon with new moves every time. That would be exhausting and unfair of me.

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April 3, 2014 at 11:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

I'm against banning event legends just because I have so damn many that I spent hours soft-reseting to be competitively viable. At the end of the day my special sweeper Mew and Calm Mind Jirachi will lose to a Gengar anyway, and possibly with a few exceptions I don't think any of them are as strong as the most viable OUs that are available to anyone. If you have something like that, I think it's a cool bonus, not a true competitive advantage, or if it is, then not an insurmountable one. I am very much against WishBliss, though. I looked up the background on the one and only event that produced those and the sheer unlikelihood of even hatching a Chansey from it, let alone with viable Nature and IVs. No one but no one has a legit WishBliss.


And what about regular Speed Boost Blaziken? It hits even harder than Mega. Rest of the list looks good to me though.


EDIT: On the note of event legends, I do have the Pokémon Colloseum pre-order disc, meaning I basically have a legal Jirachi factory. If you want one I could certainly get you one in exchange for fair compensation, but understand I can make NO promises regarding IVs. Thankfully the giveaway lets you use the same Ruby/Sapphire cart more than once, but you can only get one 'Rachi per file, meaning I have to start up a new file and play all the way through getting the PokeDex just to get a new roll at Jirachi. This means it can take an afternoon just to get a good Nature. I will try to get it down to the exact Nature you want and at least ballpark IVs, but don't look for 31s. Also be sure and tell me what 3rd, 4th, or 5th Gen-only tutor moves you want me to put on before transfering.

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April 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

We could possibly ban Hidden Ability Blaziken, idk. I know Smogon hasn't banned him because of the popularity of Bellyjet Azumarill and GaleForceTalonflame. He isn't of much worry to me. I don't plan on using one either, so I wouldn't fear me using him. Unless anyone else here is interested in using him?

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April 3, 2014 at 9:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

So Smogon has banned Mega Lucario, apparently. I'd come up with a pretty sweet all-priority set with SD to take advantage of Adaptability but I didn't think it was THAT good. Anything obvious I'm missing.


Also, Swagger is banned. What?

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April 8, 2014 at 6:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I knew about the Swagger, not the Mega Lucario. I have no strong feelings either way about it right now though.

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April 8, 2014 at 8:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Why is Swagger banned? To me it's just inferior Confuse Ray because it gives your opponent a free +2 (or +1? idk, I've never seen it outside of in-game)

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April 8, 2014 at 9:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

So still no idea about Swagger, but best I can gather from the drivel in their forums Mega Lucario is banned not because it's overpowered, but because it's too versatile and unpredictable. The same bullshit argument that took Mence out of 4th Gen. Fuck I hate Smogon.

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April 12, 2014 at 2:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Near as I can tell Pokemon with Prankster and Swagger cause issues because it reduces the enemy's chance of acting 50/50 yet goes off before they can do anything to stop it. Add to that that most Prankster users also get Foul Play so they have a very reliable way of adding damage at little cost to them. That said, it isn't like Prankster is unbeatable. Oblivious Pokemon, pokemon who also use priority, Pokemon with Magic Bounce, and pokemon with Own Tempo would mess up SwagTeams really badly.


I'm not sure I get why blockign a Pokemon on their versitility is viable. Plenty of Pokemon (Like T-tar) have an immense range of roles they can play within a team, some of them can take the whole match to learn about too. Shouldn't some of the skill of the player be based on learning what set your M!Lucario is running so they you can appropriately block it?

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Ask me about my waifus

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April 12, 2014 at 5:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Okay, I'm not sure I'm quite on board but now at least the Swagger thing makes SOME sense.


Totally with you on M!Luke. Versatitlity breeds creativity, and creative, unique, and powerful sets are what I love most about competitive Pokémon. Therefore versatile Pokémon are some of my favorite Pokémon, even if I have trouble taking them down. Understand when I badmouth Smogon, I'm badmouthing the community, not at all the research department and the body of work as it relates to the data. Nothing but respect for all the information they gather and share. I use them almost daily as a research tool, and their movesets and suggestions serve as valuable guidance in my teambuilding. But as a battling community, fuck 'em. I don't want every Poke limited to 2-3 "acceptable" movesets. Sometimes it can be a competitive advantage to run a set on a Poke that's "outclassed" by another for the very fact that it's not expected. It's almost as if they see it as poor sportsmanship to use a non-standard set. Smogon's efforts serve to, as much as possible, remove the human element from competitive Pokémon, eliminate psychology as a factor entirely, and generally, to me, make the game more boring.


PR has gone along with Smogon's bannings so far this Gen, but this is where I propose we break off. We'll still listen to what Smogon's up to, of course. But as a suggestion, not an overlord.

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April 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

And that is something we have always strived for! Learning with Smogon but not using them as a be all end all.


I would say the problem, as one user pointed out, also lies with their judgement community. They are all battlers with experience under their belt, good. This is good, educated users making judgements on Pokemon is wise. But when they don't switch up their judges, when they only pick people with experience winning and not people with experience building and thinking, they can run the risk of falling into routine and a lack of creativity.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 12, 2014 at 6:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Anyone have an issue with me using Zygarde? First try I got a freaking amazing one, 5Vs ≥29 and a good Nature. Best I can find it's not on anyone's banlist yet but it does get Exspeed and DD.

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April 13, 2014 at 8:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Nothing I have seen about Zygarde makes him any more of a beast than Garchomp or Mence can be. Last I read his real secret to success was the ability to use Coil to boost his defenses and the accurace of Stone Edge for a Perfect EdgeQuake Combo. I'm game to fight it if you want t bring it though.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 14, 2014 at 8:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I noticed that both forms of Landorus, Tornadus, and Thundurus aren't on the OU banlist today despite the fact that all three of their Incarnate forms (Gene forms, not the animal ones) were Ubers last gen. How does the group feel about using them? I have a really good Thundurus (It has hidden power Ice!) in my boxes and a decent Landorus too. I never thought about using them till now, what do you guys think? Links to all their pages on Smogon for easy reading: Landorus1 Landorus2 Tornadus1 Tornadus2 Thundurus1 Thundurus2

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 21, 2014 at 9:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Tornadus-T to Ubers for sure because of Regenerator. That's all I'm certain of after my first (and admittedly rather hasty) analysis. What I can't figure out is why was regular Landorus banned and not Landorus-T? I didn't follow its actual usage either, but Landorus-T looks to be one of the most terrifying Rock Polish users I've ever seen. With good timing, you can use Intimidate to necessitate a switch, virtually guaranteeing you get your Polish up. After that the Base 145 Attack and access to QuakeEdge should take care of the rest.

Thundurus-T looks to be the next most terrifying from here, but I'm noticing its Base speed is just exactly so that Garchomp can still get the jump on it. Though it too gets access to Agility. Volt Absorb is an excellent Ability for it as well, further limiting the ways to handle it despite its lack of bulk (I think by now Zapdos has taught us all what excellent typing Electric-Flying is).

No idea about regular Thundurus and Tornadus. Their Base Stats are good but not the best, but their typings are excellent, and then you've got to factor in Prankster.

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April 22, 2014 at 1:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I agree completely about Tornadus-T. regenerator just shits in the face of SR despite his weakness to it. Plus Flying is suhc a good attacking type.

Landorus was probalby banned because of the constant Sand Support offered in 5th gen. Landorus-T was one of the top tier OU Pokemon, but he must have been manageable enough that teams could find a way to break him. Just about everything that gen packed HP Ice too. Counters lists Thundurus-T as a potential counter and Mamoswine was rampant with Ice Shard. Only time will tell now if he proves strong enough now with the diminished uses of those two.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 22, 2014 at 7:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

ngl, I'd really like to see the return of guys like Mamo and Weavile. Rampant Mences, Chomps, and Zygardes already make them viable options to consider anyway, I'm definitely gonna breed up a nice one of each. Regardless of that, I see absolutely no reason to ban regular Landorus now that permasand is a thing of the past, and I'm leaning toward at least trying out Landorus-T. Jury's still out on both Thundurus and regular Tornadus though.

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April 23, 2014 at 1:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

I may give my Landorus and Thundurus a try then. You are welcome to challenge them as too OP in our battles.

I miss a good Mamoswine myself. I might have a personal investment about why that is though lol.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 23, 2014 at 8:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Crimson DESTR0YA
Administrator
Posts: 1888

Only bad thing about Mamo is if it's Kalos born it can't have Superpower, and its coverage moves after that are lol. Stone Edge is about it, which is usually redundant with Ice. Also Kalos-born Weavile can't have Knock Off which is unfortunate.

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April 23, 2014 at 8:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cecil-Jacobs
Member
Posts: 739

Laaaaaame. Would it have killed GF to add in a Move Tutor? Probably... but still lol. I find myself missing several moves on my favorite guys because of TrollFreak.

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Ask me about my waifus

"I'm happy to report that my inner child is still ageless". James Broughton

April 24, 2014 at 8:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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